Discussion:
real brushes instead of pointer brushes
(too old to reply)
Dale
2015-01-28 02:31:34 UTC
Permalink
why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?

instead of a pen and bitmap pointer brushes?

ideally the same brushes/instruments that have evolved over time
why continue to try to implement indirect means?

it is more like actual painting to use a screen/monitor instead of a mouse
pad or Wacom/etc tablet ... painting on a screen is more direct

it is also more like actual painting to use an actual painting
instrument on an active (receptacle) screen instead of bitmap
brushs/pencils/etc. on an indirect mouse pad or Wacom/etc tablet

maybe a screen/monitor that you can stretch over a canvas and
cut to size, too :)
--
(my whereabouts below)
http://www.dalekelly.org
Charlie Roberts
2015-01-28 03:34:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale
why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?
instead of a pen and bitmap pointer brushes?
ideally the same brushes/instruments that have evolved over time
why continue to try to implement indirect means?
it is more like actual painting to use a screen/monitor instead of a mouse
pad or Wacom/etc tablet ... painting on a screen is more direct
it is also more like actual painting to use an actual painting
instrument on an active (receptacle) screen instead of bitmap
brushs/pencils/etc. on an indirect mouse pad or Wacom/etc tablet
maybe a screen/monitor that you can stretch over a canvas and
cut to size, too :)
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the technolgoy
right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of
paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.

This reminds me of a point made when xerography was
being compared to inkjet printing in the late 90s -- when
the quality inkjet printing was really awful compared to
xerograhic printing. A wise man pointed out that one of the
biggest things going for inkjet was that it took the writing
implement right up the the substrate -- just like what the
cave dwellers did when they painted the hunt scenes on the
cave walls. They did not have to put the way through a
printer! Or a bus. Or a hamburger. And, when they started
to improve the quality, they sure this put a dent into the
'laser printer' world. Things do change.

I guess all the input technologiess we are using to get to do
something on the screen are really way out of date. But, I
am not sure when the "direct" contact technologies will come.
Speech took for ever to get anywhere.

Something better than a sketch tablet would be nice ...

cr
nospam
2015-01-28 09:22:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the technolgoy
right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of
paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20 years.
it's called a wacom cintiq.
Sandman
2015-01-28 12:30:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece of
paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using a
Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.

Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could switch out the
plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for instance, and there were
different structures as well.
--
Sandman
nospam
2015-01-28 18:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece
of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using
a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.

someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others). it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.

it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.

as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Post by Sandman
Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could switch out
the plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for instance, and there were
different structures as well.
so what?

that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
Jim Newman
2015-01-28 18:37:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece
of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using
a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others). it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
Personally, I think what the OP's asking for is a touch sensitive screen
that could tell whether the user was physically using a real pen,
pencil, or brush - and if a brush, what width of brush was being used.
nospam
2015-01-28 18:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Newman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece
of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using
a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others). it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
Personally, I think what the OP's asking for is a touch sensitive screen
that could tell whether the user was physically using a real pen,
pencil, or brush - and if a brush, what width of brush was being used.
that's what a cintiq does.
Sandman
2015-01-28 18:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Jim Newman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas
(or a sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful.
But, we are not there yet -- as anyone who has used a
touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly
20 years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a
canvas or a piece of paper other than being a flat surface. I
think what he's getting at is the ability for technology to
create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using a Cintiq
is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of
pens (including standard and an airbrush and others). it's
pressure sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line.
flip the pen around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
Personally, I think what the OP's asking for is a touch sensitive
screen that could tell whether the user was physically using a
real pen, pencil, or brush - and if a brush, what width of brush
was being used.
that's what a cintiq does.
This is incorrect (and you know it). A Cintiq can *not* use a real pen, a
real pencil or a real brush.
--
Sandman
nospam
2015-01-28 22:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Jim Newman
Personally, I think what the OP's asking for is a touch sensitive
screen that could tell whether the user was physically using a
real pen, pencil, or brush - and if a brush, what width of brush
was being used.
that's what a cintiq does.
This is incorrect (and you know it). A Cintiq can *not* use a real pen, a
real pencil or a real brush.
the pens that cintiq uses are very real.

they're not the same as a pen or brush you'd get in an art store, but
that makes no difference to an artist.
Sandman
2015-01-29 06:05:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sandman
In article
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Jim Newman
Personally, I think what the OP's asking for is a touch
sensitive screen that could tell whether the user was
physically using a real pen, pencil, or brush - and if a
brush, what width of brush was being used.
that's what a cintiq does.
This is incorrect (and you know it). A Cintiq can *not* use a real
pen, a real pencil or a real brush.
the pens that cintiq uses are very real.
No, Theo Arne stylisten, not pens.
Post by Sandman
they're not the same as a pen or brush you'd get in an art store,
but that makes no difference to an artist.
You're obviously not an artist.
--
Sandman
Sandman
2015-01-29 09:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Sandman: Personally, I think what the OP's asking for is a
touch sensitive screen that could tell whether the user was
physically using a real pen, pencil, or brush - and if a
brush, what width of brush was being used.
that's what a cintiq does.
This is incorrect (and you know it). A Cintiq can *not*
use a real pen, a real pencil or a real brush.
the pens that cintiq uses are very real.
No, Theo Arne stylisten, not pens.
This was written on my phone, and autocorrected. Duh.

"They are styluses"
--
Sandman
Sandman
2015-01-28 18:53:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or
a sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we
are not there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen
knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas
or a piece of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what
he's getting at is the ability for technology to create the
roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using a Cintiq is still a
stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
On a superficial level, yes. But using a pen against a piece of paper is
quite different than using a Wacom Stylus on a Wacom Cintiq. It's as close as
we can get today and it's awesome beyond words. But a pen and a paper
interacts in a very specific way, the roughness of the paper, the friction of
the pen tip etc.

I love all my Cintiq's to death, but sometimes, it's not as close as one
would like.

And while the difference between a cintiq and a piece of paper may be subtle,
the difference between a cintiq and an oil canvas is monumental in "feel".
Post by nospam
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others).
These days, it's the normal stylus tip, the airbrush pen and the marker pen.
Few people use anything but the normal stylus though.
Post by nospam
it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
Uh, yeah, I know. I've used Cintiq's since they were released. I even have my
original 15" Cintiq around here somewhere. :)
Post by nospam
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
Well, the difference may not be important or noticable to you, but for an
artist like myself, it is. And sometimes it's a shame.
Post by nospam
as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Uh, no.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could
switch out the plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for
instance, and there were different structures as well.
so what?
So you could get an overlay that would more closely emulate the feel of
paper.
Post by nospam
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
"To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of paper) in every way
would be wonderful."

I.e. not software, the *screen* should mimic the canvas. That's how I read it
at least.
--
Sandman
nospam
2015-01-28 22:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or
a sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we
are not there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen
knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas
or a piece of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what
he's getting at is the ability for technology to create the
roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using a Cintiq is still a
stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
On a superficial level, yes. But using a pen against a piece of paper is
quite different than using a Wacom Stylus on a Wacom Cintiq.
not really.
Post by Sandman
It's as close as
we can get today and it's awesome beyond words.
yes it is.
Post by Sandman
But a pen and a paper
interacts in a very specific way, the roughness of the paper, the friction of
the pen tip etc.
big deal. nobody expects it to be 100% exact, and that doesn't make one
bit of difference anyway.
Post by Sandman
I love all my Cintiq's to death, but sometimes, it's not as close as one
would like.
it's close enough.
Post by Sandman
And while the difference between a cintiq and a piece of paper may be subtle,
the difference between a cintiq and an oil canvas is monumental in "feel".
not important and haptics can fix that. it turns out, nobody cares.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others).
These days, it's the normal stylus tip, the airbrush pen and the marker pen.
Few people use anything but the normal stylus though.
that doesn't mean they don't exist. they do
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
Uh, yeah, I know. I've used Cintiq's since they were released. I even have my
original 15" Cintiq around here somewhere. :)
others might not know that.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
Well, the difference may not be important or noticable to you, but for an
artist like myself, it is. And sometimes it's a shame.
the vast majority of artists don't find it to be an issue.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Uh, no.
uh yes. all that needs to be done is model the ink bleed on canvas
versus paper. very simple.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could
switch out the plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for
instance, and there were different structures as well.
so what?
So you could get an overlay that would more closely emulate the feel of
paper.
which is called 'paper'.

wacom tablets are rf, so it doesn't matter if there's an overlay or not.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
"To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of paper) in every way
would be wonderful."
I.e. not software, the *screen* should mimic the canvas. That's how I read it
at least.
it does.
Eric Stevens
2015-01-29 04:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or
a sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we
are not there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen
knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas
or a piece of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what
he's getting at is the ability for technology to create the
roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using a Cintiq is still a
stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
On a superficial level, yes. But using a pen against a piece of paper is
quite different than using a Wacom Stylus on a Wacom Cintiq.
not really.
Post by Sandman
It's as close as
we can get today and it's awesome beyond words.
yes it is.
Post by Sandman
But a pen and a paper
interacts in a very specific way, the roughness of the paper, the friction of
the pen tip etc.
big deal. nobody expects it to be 100% exact, and that doesn't make one
bit of difference anyway.
Post by Sandman
I love all my Cintiq's to death, but sometimes, it's not as close as one
would like.
it's close enough.
Post by Sandman
And while the difference between a cintiq and a piece of paper may be subtle,
the difference between a cintiq and an oil canvas is monumental in "feel".
not important and haptics can fix that. it turns out, nobody cares.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others).
These days, it's the normal stylus tip, the airbrush pen and the marker pen.
Few people use anything but the normal stylus though.
that doesn't mean they don't exist. they do
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
Uh, yeah, I know. I've used Cintiq's since they were released. I even have my
original 15" Cintiq around here somewhere. :)
others might not know that.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
Well, the difference may not be important or noticable to you, but for an
artist like myself, it is. And sometimes it's a shame.
the vast majority of artists don't find it to be an issue.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Uh, no.
uh yes. all that needs to be done is model the ink bleed on canvas
versus paper. very simple.
How about modeling the drag of the brush on canvas according to the
viscosity of the paint and the pressure on the brush? I don't think
software will manage that.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could
switch out the plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for
instance, and there were different structures as well.
so what?
So you could get an overlay that would more closely emulate the feel of
paper.
which is called 'paper'.
wacom tablets are rf, so it doesn't matter if there's an overlay or not.
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
"To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of paper) in every way
would be wonderful."
I.e. not software, the *screen* should mimic the canvas. That's how I read it
at least.
it does.
--
Regards,

Eric Stevens
Sandman
2015-01-29 08:50:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the
ability to get the technolgoy right. To find a screen
which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of paper) in every way
would be wonderful. But, we are not there yet -- as
anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
nospam: not only are we there yet, but we've been there for
roughly 20 years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really
"mimic" a canvas or a piece of paper other than being a flat
surface. I think what he's getting at is the ability for
technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc.
Using a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth
surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
On a superficial level, yes. But using a pen against a piece of
paper is quite different than using a Wacom Stylus on a Wacom
Cintiq.
not really.
Yes, really.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
But a pen and a paper interacts in a very specific way, the
roughness of the paper, the friction of the pen tip etc.
big deal.
Not big, but in some cases, it's an important difference.
Post by nospam
nobody expects it to be 100% exact, and that doesn't make
one bit of difference anyway.
It does. Shading with a 8B pencil on paper is easy and the pen and paper gives
real feedback to your fingers at all times. Shading with a wacom stylus on a
screen is a lot different, and you need to learn how much you need to press
down to get what result. It's as close we can get today, but the difference is
there nonetheless.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
I love all my Cintiq's to death, but sometimes, it's not as close
as one would like.
it's close enough.
No, it isn't. You're obviously not an artist. You can't make such claims when
you don't know the difference.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
And while the difference between a cintiq and a piece of paper may
be subtle, the difference between a cintiq and an oil canvas is
monumental in "feel".
not important and haptics can fix that.
Can != does.
Post by nospam
it turns out, nobody cares.
Support?
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
it's pressure sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the
line. flip the pen around to erase.
Uh, yeah, I know. I've used Cintiq's since they were released. I
even have my original 15" Cintiq around here somewhere. :)
others might not know that.
It's for the benefit of these others I am correcting your misleading
information.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
Well, the difference may not be important or noticable to you, but
for an artist like myself, it is. And sometimes it's a shame.
the vast majority of artists don't find it to be an issue.
Support for this? No? Thought so.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Uh, no.
uh yes. all that needs to be done is model the ink bleed on canvas
versus paper. very simple.
Software can not make the screen feel like a canvas or the stylus feel like a
brush. What you are talking about is emulating the result, but the topic was a
screen that simulates the process.
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that
anyway.
"To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of paper) in
every way would be wonderful."
I.e. not software, the *screen* should mimic the canvas. That's
how I read it at least.
it does.
Incorrect.
--
Sandman
Tony Cooper
2015-01-28 19:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece
of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using
a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others). it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Post by Sandman
Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could switch out
the plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for instance, and there were
different structures as well.
so what?
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of

"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"

There may be a variety of stylus styles, but you can't pick up an
artist's brush and use it with a Wacom table. Or a regular pencil.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Savageduck
2015-01-28 20:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece
of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using
a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others). it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Post by Sandman
Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could switch out
the plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for instance, and there were
different structures as well.
so what?
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
There may be a variety of stylus styles, but you can't pick up an
artist's brush and use it with a Wacom table. Or a regular pencil.
As far as finding a textured surface to work on, that might be out there in
the future, but if you want a brush there is one available.
<http://www.sensubrush.com>
--
Savageduck
Sandman
2015-01-28 20:48:31 UTC
Permalink
In article <1320722333444168254.106895savageduck1-
Post by Savageduck
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
so what?
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that
anyway.
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like
his question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will accept the use
of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
There may be a variety of stylus styles, but you can't pick up an
artist's brush and use it with a Wacom table. Or a regular
pencil.
As far as finding a textured surface to work on, that might be out
there in the future, but if you want a brush there is one available.
<http://www.sensubrush.com>
Ok, time to make some things clear here.

The above, the Sensu Brush, is *not* an input device for a Wacom tablet. It is
a "brush" that has bristles that conduct electricity, making it possible to use
on a capacitive touch screen - like the iPad. In effect, this brush emulates
your finger, much like many other styluses do.

This brush does not, to any app or program, offer any other input than your
finger. The app will not know how you hold it, how it is tilted, how many
bristles touch the screen etc etc. Basically, it is faking it. What it does do
is give the user a more brush-like "feel" when using it in painting apps, but
not brush-like control.

I own two of this stylus/brush, and it is the one that is always in my iPad
case. I think it's great! It's compact, and in apps like ArtRage or Procreate,
the feeling is really nice.

But again, it doesn't offer any input precision over a finger. There *are*
styluses that do, that can use Bluetooth to communicate pressure to the app,
and Wacom themselves makes one of the very best such iPad styluses, but app
support is still a bit slim for the new version. :)
--
Sandman
Savageduck
2015-01-28 21:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sandman
In article <1320722333444168254.106895savageduck1-
Post by Savageduck
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
so what?
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that
anyway.
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like
his question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will accept the use
of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
There may be a variety of stylus styles, but you can't pick up an
artist's brush and use it with a Wacom table. Or a regular
pencil.
As far as finding a textured surface to work on, that might be out
there in the future, but if you want a brush there is one available.
<http://www.sensubrush.com>
Ok, time to make some things clear here.
The above, the Sensu Brush, is *not* an input device for a Wacom tablet. It is
a "brush" that has bristles that conduct electricity, making it possible to use
on a capacitive touch screen - like the iPad. In effect, this brush emulates
your finger, much like many other styluses do.
Yeah! I was aware that the Sensu Brush is not for use on any of the Wacom
tablets. I just threw that out there to show that a bristle tip input
device does exist.
Post by Sandman
This brush does not, to any app or program, offer any other input than your
finger. The app will not know how you hold it, how it is tilted, how many
bristles touch the screen etc etc. Basically, it is faking it. What it does do
is give the user a more brush-like "feel" when using it in painting apps, but
not brush-like control.
I own two of this stylus/brush, and it is the one that is always in my iPad
case. I think it's great! It's compact, and in apps like ArtRage or Procreate,
the feeling is really nice.
But again, it doesn't offer any input precision over a finger. There *are*
styluses that do, that can use Bluetooth to communicate pressure to the app,
and Wacom themselves makes one of the very best such iPad styluses, but app
support is still a bit slim for the new version. :)
Yup! I know of the Wacom pen and several other pressure sensitive input
styli which are teamed with various tablets & apps.
--
Savageduck
J. Clarke
2015-02-01 02:57:00 UTC
Permalink
In article <119429242444171208.102145savageduck1-{removespam}
Post by Savageduck
Post by Sandman
In article <1320722333444168254.106895savageduck1-
Post by Savageduck
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
so what?
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like
his question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will accept the use
of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
There may be a variety of stylus styles, but you can't pick up an
artist's brush and use it with a Wacom table. Or a regular pencil.
As far as finding a textured surface to work on, that might be out
there in the future, but if you want a brush there is one available.
<http://www.sensubrush.com>
Ok, time to make some things clear here.
The above, the Sensu Brush, is *not* an input device for a Wacom tablet. It is
a "brush" that has bristles that conduct electricity, making it possible to use
on a capacitive touch screen - like the iPad. In effect, this brush emulates
your finger, much like many other styluses do.
Yeah! I was aware that the Sensu Brush is not for use on any of the Wacom
tablets. I just threw that out there to show that a bristle tip input
device does exist.
Post by Sandman
This brush does not, to any app or program, offer any other input than your
finger. The app will not know how you hold it, how it is tilted, how many
bristles touch the screen etc etc. Basically, it is faking it. What it does do
is give the user a more brush-like "feel" when using it in painting apps, but
not brush-like control.
I own two of this stylus/brush, and it is the one that is always in my iPad
case. I think it's great! It's compact, and in apps like ArtRage or Procreate,
the feeling is really nice.
But again, it doesn't offer any input precision over a finger. There *are*
styluses that do, that can use Bluetooth to communicate pressure to the app,
and Wacom themselves makes one of the very best such iPad styluses, but app
support is still a bit slim for the new version. :)
Yup! I know of the Wacom pen and several other pressure sensitive input
styli which are teamed with various tablets & apps.
If you want a portable graphic machine, forget all the icrap and Macs
and the like and spend the bucks for a Cintiq Companion. Full Cintiq
performance--draw on the screen, tilt, rotation, pressure, the whole
nine yards. Put Painter on that and you're about as close as current
technology allows to an electronic canvas.
Sandman
2015-02-01 07:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Savageduck
Yup! I know of the Wacom pen and several other pressure sensitive
input styli which are teamed with various tablets & apps.
If you want a portable graphic machine, forget all the icrap and
Macs and the like and spend the bucks for a Cintiq Companion. Full
Cintiq performance--draw on the screen, tilt, rotation, pressure,
the whole nine yards. Put Painter on that and you're about as
close as current technology allows to an electronic canvas.
I love my Cintiq Companion! Only drawback is that it runs Windows... :/
--
Sandman
nospam
2015-01-28 22:36:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
because that's what it does. have you ever used a cintiq?
Post by Tony Cooper
There may be a variety of stylus styles, but you can't pick up an
artist's brush and use it with a Wacom table. Or a regular pencil.
wacom sells those as well as an airbrush.

nobody (but you) expects to be able to use a *regular* pencil.
obviously there has to be some electronics in the mix.

there are also pens that can be used to write on paper (with ink) which
*also* track the motions made and can later output the results to a
computer, which works exceptionally well for taking notes and basic
sketches. some can even do handwriting recognition.
Tony Cooper
2015-01-28 23:12:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
because that's what it does. have you ever used a cintiq?
Ah, we have a weasel spotting. The question is not about "what it
does", it is about "what can be used".

Please tell me how any type of brush or pencil can be used with
Cintiq. That would address the "exactly" part.

I would try using a regular pencil on my Wacom tablet, but I don't
want to scratch the surface. I guess a paintbrush wouldn't hurt it.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
nospam
2015-01-28 23:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
because that's what it does. have you ever used a cintiq?
Ah, we have a weasel spotting. The question is not about "what it
does", it is about "what can be used".
no it wasn't.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the technolgoy
right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of
paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
nowhere did he specify what pens can be used. you made that up just to
argue.

as i wrote then, the cintiq *does* mimic a canvas or sheet of paper in
every way.

actually that's not entirely true. you can't fold it up and stuff it in
your pocket and you can't light it on fire (at least not easily).
Post by Tony Cooper
Please tell me how any type of brush or pencil can be used with
Cintiq. That would address the "exactly" part.
that was never the issue.
Post by Tony Cooper
I would try using a regular pencil on my Wacom tablet, but I don't
want to scratch the surface. I guess a paintbrush wouldn't hurt it.
you're an idiot.
Tony Cooper
2015-01-28 23:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
because that's what it does. have you ever used a cintiq?
Ah, we have a weasel spotting. The question is not about "what it
does", it is about "what can be used".
no it wasn't.
You've gone from weasel to outright lie. The original post in this
thread was by Dale where he said:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?

instead of a pen and bitmap pointer brushes?

ideally the same brushes/instruments that have evolved over time
why continue to try to implement indirect means?

it is more like actual painting to use a screen/monitor instead of a
mouse
pad or Wacom/etc tablet ... painting on a screen is more direct

it is also more like actual painting to use an actual painting
instrument on an active (receptacle) screen instead of bitmap
brushs/pencils/etc. on an indirect mouse pad or Wacom/etc tablet

maybe a screen/monitor that you can stretch over a canvas and
cut to size, too :)
________________________________________________________________________


Then, Charlie Roberts posted this.
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the technolgoy
right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of
paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
nowhere did he specify what pens can be used. you made that up just to
argue.
Read what was asked in the original post that started this thread.
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Please tell me how any type of brush or pencil can be used with
Cintiq. That would address the "exactly" part.
that was never the issue.
Why are you lying?
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
I would try using a regular pencil on my Wacom tablet, but I don't
want to scratch the surface. I guess a paintbrush wouldn't hurt it.
you're an idiot.
But I can read.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
nospam
2015-01-28 23:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
because that's what it does. have you ever used a cintiq?
Ah, we have a weasel spotting. The question is not about "what it
does", it is about "what can be used".
no it wasn't.
You've gone from weasel to outright lie.
no i haven't.

you, on the other hand...
Post by Tony Cooper
The original post in this
i wasn't responding to dale. do try to keep up and stop lying and
twisting.

i was responding to charlie, which should be clear from my post where i
*quoted* what charlie wrote along with his attribution. there is no way
anyone could have missed that, which means you are intentionally lying
about what i said.

i don't give a shit what dale posts. his posts are generally
nonsensical and incomprehensible babble.
Post by Tony Cooper
---------------------------------------------------------------------
why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?
instead of a pen and bitmap pointer brushes?
ideally the same brushes/instruments that have evolved over time
why continue to try to implement indirect means?
it is more like actual painting to use a screen/monitor instead of a mouse
pad or Wacom/etc tablet ... painting on a screen is more direct
it is also more like actual painting to use an actual painting
instrument on an active (receptacle) screen instead of bitmap
brushs/pencils/etc. on an indirect mouse pad or Wacom/etc tablet
maybe a screen/monitor that you can stretch over a canvas and
cut to size, too :)
________________________________________________________________________
the cintiq does what he asks. he still can choose 'any' brush, it just
has to be from wacom.

nobody expects to be able to use a generic pencil, except lunatics.
Post by Tony Cooper
Then, Charlie Roberts posted this.
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the technolgoy
right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of
paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
nowhere did he specify what pens can be used. you made that up just to
argue.
Read what was asked in the original post that started this thread.
i wasn't responding to that post. try to keep up.

again, i was responding to a specific post, which i quoted.

i wasn't responding to the post you are trying to say i responded to.
as usual, you're lying.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Please tell me how any type of brush or pencil can be used with
Cintiq. That would address the "exactly" part.
that was never the issue.
Why are you lying?
i'm not the one who is lying at all.

you, on the other hand, are trying to fabricate all sorts of stuff.
disgusting.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
I would try using a regular pencil on my Wacom tablet, but I don't
want to scratch the surface. I guess a paintbrush wouldn't hurt it.
you're an idiot.
But I can read.
not as well as you lie and twist. seek help.
Savageduck
2015-01-29 00:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
because that's what it does. have you ever used a cintiq?
Ah, we have a weasel spotting. The question is not about "what it
does", it is about "what can be used".
no it wasn't.
You've gone from weasel to outright lie.
no i haven't.
you, on the other hand...
Post by Tony Cooper
The original post in this
i wasn't responding to dale. do try to keep up and stop lying and
twisting.
i was responding to charlie, which should be clear from my post where i
*quoted* what charlie wrote along with his attribution. there is no way
anyone could have missed that, which means you are intentionally lying
about what i said.
i don't give a shit what dale posts. his posts are generally
nonsensical and incomprehensible babble.
Yet he is the originator of this thread, the actual OP, not Charlie.

We would not be engaged in this spat were it not for his original post, and
pondering.
--
Savageduck
Tony Cooper
2015-01-29 01:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
How in the world is using a Wacom pad and stylus "*exactly*" like his
question of
"why not make painting screens/monitors that will
accept the use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
because that's what it does. have you ever used a cintiq?
Ah, we have a weasel spotting. The question is not about "what it
does", it is about "what can be used".
no it wasn't.
You've gone from weasel to outright lie.
no i haven't.
you, on the other hand...
Post by Tony Cooper
The original post in this
i wasn't responding to dale. do try to keep up and stop lying and
twisting.
i was responding to charlie, which should be clear from my post where i
*quoted* what charlie wrote along with his attribution. there is no way
anyone could have missed that, which means you are intentionally lying
about what i said.
What kind of bullshit is this? You clearly said "the original post".
Are you Swedish? Don't you know what the term "original post" means?

It would help your credibility to just once in a while admitting that
you made an error. You could have said "I didn't see the original
post". You could have said "I made a mistake". Instead you tried to
cover up your error.

What you quoted has no bearing on this. You often snip parts of
posts.

You would have been OK if you had left out the lie of about the
*original* post.

I quoted what Dale said, and you ignored that and lied about
responding to the original post.
Post by nospam
i don't give a shit what dale posts. his posts are generally
nonsensical and incomprehensible babble.
If you don't give a shit about Dale's question, why get in the thread
at all? The only reason you get into a thread is to argue about
something someone else posts. You might as well argue with the
originator of the thread.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Sandman
2015-01-29 09:05:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Ah, we have a weasel spotting. The question is not about "what it
does", it is about "what can be used".
no it wasn't.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are
not there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
nowhere did he specify what pens can be used. you made that up just
to argue.
Context is king - his post followed this:

Dale
real brushes instead of pointer brushes
01/28/2015 <***@news.alt.net>

"why not make painting screens/monitors that will accept the
use of any type of brush/pencil/etc. you want?"
Post by nospam
as i wrote then, the cintiq *does* mimic a canvas or sheet of paper
in every way.
Incorrect. A Wacom screen doesn't "mimic" anything but a screen.
Post by nospam
actually that's not entirely true. you can't fold it up and stuff it
in your pocket and you can't light it on fire (at least not easily).
Nor can you make it mimic a piece of paper or a canvas.
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
Please tell me how any type of brush or pencil can be used with
Cintiq. That would address the "exactly" part.
that was never the issue.
Incorrect.
Post by nospam
Post by Tony Cooper
I would try using a regular pencil on my Wacom tablet, but I don't
want to scratch the surface. I guess a paintbrush wouldn't hurt it.
you're an idiot.
Agreed. :)
--
Sandman
Dale
2015-01-28 22:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece
of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using
a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others). it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
doesn't allow for "regular" styluses, like a fine paint brush
Post by nospam
as for canvas versus paper, that's just software.
Post by Sandman
Older Wacom tablets had interchangeable overlays, i.e. you could switch out
the plastic film on the tablet, add one with a grid for instance, and there were
different structures as well.
so what?
that isn't what he's asking for and any tablet can do that anyway.
--
(my whereabouts below)
http://www.dalekelly.org
nospam
2015-01-28 22:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a
sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20
years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a canvas or a piece
of paper other than being a flat surface. I think what he's getting at is the
ability for technology to create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using
a Cintiq is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of pens
(including standard and an airbrush and others). it's pressure
sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line. flip the pen
around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
doesn't allow for "regular" styluses, like a fine paint brush
yes it does.
Sandman
2015-01-29 09:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Dale
Post by nospam
Post by Sandman
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the
technolgoy right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas
(or a sheet of paper) in every way would be wonderful.
But, we are not there yet -- as anyone who has used a
touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly
20 years. it's called a wacom cintiq.
Well, to be fair, a wacom cintiq doesn't really "mimic" a
canvas or a piece of paper other than being a flat surface. I
think what he's getting at is the ability for technology to
create the roughness of a oil canvas etc etc. Using a Cintiq
is still a stylus against a flat smooth surface.
a stylus against a flat surface is what pen and paper *is*.
someone can draw directly on a cintiq with any of a variety of
pens (including standard and an airbrush and others). it's
pressure sensitive so the harder you press the thicker the line.
flip the pen around to erase.
it's *exactly* what he asked for and it's been around for a long time.
doesn't allow for "regular" styluses, like a fine paint brush
yes it does.
Ok, cool. Is there a special driver needed? I have this *awesome* Winsor & Newton
Series 7 Kolinsky aquarelle brush [1] I want to use. Is there a different driver
for different brands? This brush doesn't work at all:

<Loading Image...>

That's not the Series 7 though, so maybe it's not compatible?



1: http://tinyurl.com/p6rnle2
--
Sandman
Charlie Roberts
2015-01-29 04:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by nospam
Post by Charlie Roberts
Great point. I guess it is all in the ability to get the technolgoy
right. To find a screen which mimics a canvas (or a sheet of
paper) in every way would be wonderful. But, we are not
there yet -- as anyone who has used a touch screen knows.
not only are we there yet, but we've been there for roughly 20 years.
it's called a wacom cintiq.
Really?
Loading...